Doug Gillard Reflects on the Return of Children’s Crusade

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The Fire Note Interview

Doug Gillard

Revisiting Children’s Crusade and the reissue of A Duty-Dance With Death

Splendid Research | November 2024


In a nostalgic nod to Cleveland’s gritty post-punk scene, Doug Gillard, best known as the guitarist for Guided By Voices, has just reissued A Duty-Dance With Death, a 1984 cassette from his teenage band, Children’s Crusade. This remastered collection captures the raw energy of Cleveland’s post-punk underground, where Gillard and vocalist Fraser Sims first experimented with intense, gothic-tinged sounds influenced by local heroes like Pere Ubu and The Dead Boys as well as UK post-punk icons. The album is the second release on Robert Pollard’s new label, Splendid Research.

In this interview, Doug dives into what it was like to revisit this music after so many years, how the project shaped his path as a musician, and how he thinks Children’s Crusade would have evolved in today’s music industry. For Guided By Voices fans and new listeners alike, this is a rare look at Doug Gillard’s roots in the DIY Cleveland scene of the 1980s.

Children's Crusade - A Duty-Dance With Death

“It proved to me what I was capable of, and just knowing that I could even achieve whatever this was at the time opened up possibilities.”
Doug Gillard

The Fire Note

Reissuing music from your teen years must feel like stepping into a time capsule. What was it like revisiting the material from Children’s Crusade after so many years?

Doug Gillard

It was exciting to be able to hear the individual tracks again after 40 years. I had always had the tapes, but didn’t think I’d be able to get them baked and transferred successfully, as the format was odd: 2 reels that were synced up during recording, so I knew there would be some drift between the tapes. The chances of the 2 machines they had at this small project studio in Elyria Ohio in 1983/4 being perfectly calibrated and running at the same exact speed weren’t super high, but there wasn’t too much nudging we had to do. The engineer I worked with there at the time was professional and knew his stuff. He was literally the adult in the room. It was just he and I, except the day Fraser recorded his vocals. One thing I remember about that day was that he had to get them all done, as he was leaving for the Army the next day.


The Fire Note

What do you think Children’s Crusade represents about the time and place where you recorded it?

Doug Gillard

We were high schoolers that were already in bands playing in Cleveland bars despite our ages, though we still lived in a relatively suburban area. Fraser’s mom was from Scotland, so he had visited the UK and brought back incredible records a couple years prior to this project. It was a combination of this plus what we heard on college radio at the time that went into the musical direction, and Fraser’s lyrics were somewhat tailored to fit this sort of thing, but some were short stories and poems he had written the past few years. “Betrayal In Three Acts” is about a breakup he went through, even though I sing lead on that one. He was a fully developed and mature writer at 15 when we met.

The style I was writing in was drawing on music that was released 2-3 years prior in the UK mostly, though one was a Chrome type thing, which was San Francisco. We were definitely 2 of 3 or 4 kids in our school that were aware of Siouxsie, Chameleons, Killing Joke, or Chrome.


Children's Crusade
The Fire Note

What is the one song from Children’s Crusade that stands out to you now as especially meaningful or even ahead of its time?

Doug Gillard

It’s hard to say, because I know where the songs come from, or what we were sort of trying to sound like. I guess in these songs resulting from digesting those influences, they became their own thing. “Decade Of The Worm” to me probably is the most sophisticated thing I’d written up to then, and I dig the chord progressions of that and “Lurker On The Threshold”. Lyrically, I think “Betrayal” is timeless, and anyone today would do well to be able to write bitter breakup lyrics as good and as pithy as those.


The Fire Note

Finally, what’s next for you musically?

Doug Gillard

There are more GbV albums on the horizon, I’m working on solo things, and one of the projects I recorded with Scarcity Of Tanks’ Matthew Wascovitch, band name Flowers Destroy, has an album called Hawks Listen that is being released right now. It’s Matt on vocals, Jonny Bell on bass, Raul Morales drumming, and Norm Westberg and I on guitars. We recorded it during the first years of the pandemic, and it’s on Total Life Society records.

Interview by The Fire Note | Photos courtesy of Doug Gillard
A Duty-Dance With Death is out now on Splendid Research.

A lifelong fan of new music—spent the '90s working in a record store and producing alternative video shows. In the 2000s, that passion shifted online with blogging, diving headfirst into the indie scene and always on the lookout for the next great release. Still here, still listening, and still sharing the best of what’s new.

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